Generic turban guy

This looks like a drawing of my friend who likes to draw clichéd black-clothed raghead characters (his wording, not mine!) that look like himself. But this is somebody elses drawing entirely. To the point: mistakes!

1. Is this arrow solid steel? That's a bad idea, an arrow has to bend around the bow arc in order to fly well.

2. This longbow doesn't seem to bend enough. Also why is a Middle-Eastern / Indian inspired archer using a Western European type longbow? Usually we always see recurve bows nowadays, because people think they look cooler, but this would be the time to use it!

3. Four finger grip, instead of three, or any other proper grip.

4. These flethings are terrible, they also cover the nock of the arrow which is really bad.

5. Back quiver, and on the wrong shoulder.

Quivers on hips, not on back

There have been debate after Lars Andersen's excellent archery video, and it's sequel, about if back quivers were used in history.

I received a comment telling me that some unnamed experts had provided Andersen's with pictographical evidence of back quivers used in Medieval Europe. Andersen himself showed in his video some pictures of quivers hanging at the hip belt of archers, and he does not deny the existence of back quivers altogether.

But I have never seen a proof of medieval or modern period European archers using back quivers. In the manner of proper scientific method I am always open for corrections, so I ask you to provide me a medieval, or modern period (or whatever period), picture, drawing, painting, fresco, graffito, relief, statue, miniature, mosaic, glass painting, etc. pictographical evidence of European (or from anywhere) archer or crossbowman using a back quiver.

So...

WANTED: A historical illustration of archer wearing a quiver on his back.

In the meantime, I will provide my own evidence. I tried to find any image of back quivers, but mostly couldn't find any. Here are a collection of pictures I found of archers and crossbowmen, and almost all of them are using hip quivers. Some had tuck their arrows inside their belts, some carried them by hand and some didn't have spare arrows at all (artists mistake?), but not much back quivers.

There are one dubious example of a back quiver I could find. It's on the famous Bayeux tapestry, which tells the story of William the Conqueror conquering England roughly one thousand years ago. The picture is not of highest quality, because of it's age and the method of making. Anatomy, perspective and several other things are incorrect in this tapestry, so I don't know if this counts as firm proof. And the belt/baldric of that one quiver is depicted wrong, I am not sure if they have tried to depict a back quiver or a hip quiver, since the quiver is at shoulder level, but the belt looks like a hip belt and not like a shoulder baldric. Even if that would be a proper back quiver, it is only one picture, the only one I've seen so far. All the three other bowmen in that same scene of the Bayeux tapestry have ordinary hip quivers.

I will show the Bayeux tapestry example last. First, pictures of archers with hip quivers:





From medieval Roman 'Alexander manuscript'.









Death of Saint Edmund, the King of Essex.


Depiction of Burgundian archers in the battle of Grandson (1476) in Lucerne Chronicle.


Mythical man-animal creature.








Shooting of St. Sebastian.


Archer Drawing a Bow by Pietro Vannucci Perugino.


Looks like Leonardo DaVinci's style to me.


Asiatic horse archer.



Horse archer.






Shooting of St. Sebastian, once more.



Early modern period Hungarian.


Knight on horseback with a bow.


Polish king Jagiello, 1418.


Some pictures from Islamic books too.


And horse archers.



And now the Bayeux tapestry picture, which has three archers with hip quivers and one with something which looks like a hip quiver but not worn properly:



Since this post is quite long already, I will continue with pictures of bowmen without a quiver in the next post, later.

So far: 39 different pictures with hip quivers, only one which may be a back quiver.

Lars Andersen part 2: myths of archery

Lars Andersen performing a bow trick.

Almost immediately when Lars Andersen's speed shooting video went viral, there emerged one and another column of criticism on different newspapers and web sites, written usually by self-claimed, but still unnamed, "archery experts", who angrily (and quite enviously) bashed his techniques, claimed them being nothing more than circus tricks, useless in warfare, and even accused him of 'distortion of history', a pretty serious claim with only misunderstandings backing it.

I want to correct those now. If you still haven't seen Andersen's amazing skills on video, you can find it in my last post in this blog.

Back quiver, a Hollywood myth, persisting over nine decades!

Those envy "experts" misunderstood the point clearly stated in Andersen's video, that back quivers weren't really used much at all in history, since they are very impractical. They thought that Andersen meant that quivers weren't used at all, then making obvious statements, that "no one would carry twenty to forty arrows in their hands". Of course not. Of course quivers were used. The thing was: quivers weren't used on back. That's the Hollywood myth, which they think looks 'cool', and because of that, every modern archer wants to replicate that and keep their arrows on their back. They probably haven't even tried to use hip quivers, although they would be much more practical, easier and faster to use.

Medieval longbowman with a proper hip quiver.

Another point was made about 'distortion of history', which is a crappy statement. Andersen claimed that the techniques he have discovered and practised have been lost in time for quite some time. This is in fact true. The "experts" claimed that these techniques were only lost in Europe, but not in Asia, where they would still prevail even today. I would like to ask these "experts", how many cultures in Asia still wage war, or even hunt, with traditional bows? I give you the answer too: zero! Also Andersen's techniques are based on Saracen archery, and Saracen (a generic term for arabic muslims in late Midde Ages) culture exists no more (replaced by muslim culture and different national identities, certainly the art of fast archery has been lost until now).

The "experts" gave as an example some traditional Japanese archery (kyudo) practised today. But the thing is: kyudo is a martial art, a sport, not a way of fighting in a war! These are two completely different things. In kyudo the archers use a long time for aiming each shot, and accuracy is the main goal in it. They are not fighting against an enemy, who would try to kill them. Also, sport bows are only half as powerful as war bows would be. That means they require much less force, and they can be held longer in the full drawn aiming position. With a real war bow, an archer doesn't really "aim" with the arrow, he knows where it will go when he releases, he just draws quickly and releases immediately (because with a powerful war bow the full draw requires immense amount of strength and if someone tries to aim with a full draw, their hands will get shaky and the arrow will fly off the target).

A modern Japanese kyudo archer holds his arrows on his back, not in a full quiver, but in a very small quiver called yebira, which doesn't hold the arrow shafts as tightly as a western full quiver, and actually the arrows can be drawn from the side, not from behind a shoulder, like in movies.

A historical kyudo archer. Japanese archery is based on wholly different techniques than European or Saracen archery, which Lars Andersen represents.

'Lars Andersen, a new level of archery' review

Lars Andersen, a Danish master archer has uploaded a video on Youtube, demonstrating both his skills and the historical methods of archery. Those methods have been lost in history for a long time, until now Andersen has reconstructed them based on literary and pictographical evidence. This is experimental archaeology at its best!

He's an incredible shooter, I must say. Certainly the best in the world. His speed AND accuracy are on the top level compared to anyone else. The level is so much higher than even thought to be possible, that it's breathtaking to behold such a beautiful sight of skills in use! He says he has practised with a bow and arrow for ten years now. I must applaud to him.

I will make some points from the video next. Watch it first, and read after that.

1. Lars Andersen is the top archer in the world. No one else comes even close. While some might be half as fast, they don't move while they shoot and they are possibly not near as accurate. While some Olympic archers might be as accurate as Andersen, they wouldn't be near as good on the move, and are significantly slower. And they use "unfair" modern equipment (bows with laser sights etc, so boring!). I meant to say that while Lars is on the level 100 of archery, the next best is about on the level 50. Even though in ancient and mediaeval times archery was far more widespread a practice than today, I don't think most of the – even professional archers – were on this level back then.
2. Most of the archers in old manuscripts (which Andersen has used as evidence) do shoot the arrow from the left side of the bow (from the perspective of a right handed archer). There are four pictures in this video showing the arrow on the right side of the bow. When the arrow is on the left side, it rests on the bow hand and is easy to keep there, it doesn't fall off. This is a recommendable form for any beginner or intermediate archer. In fact, keeping the arrow on the right would be recommended only to Lars-level of archers, if they're shooting while keeping the arrows on their hand, instead of a quiver. So, first learn to keep the arrow on the left side of the bow, it's easier, and more practical. Most archers did this historically anyway.
3. Lars keeps his arrows on his string hand, and holds them from the nock end. In most pictures the archers hold the arrows from the tip. And I can't imagine why they would do that. As Andersen demonstrates, he's incredibly quick to shoot repeatedly while holding the arrows like that, since they're already at the right position and angle for the next shot. If the arrows are held from the tip, they have to be turned around before shooting. That's impractical. And holding them from the nock is also easier and safer than from the pointy end.
4. About one thing I have to disagree with the video. The uselessness of mail/maille (called erroneously "chain mail" in the video, mail means just that, it doesn't need the prefix 'chain') as an armour. Mail, invented by the Celts in central Europe, was used for thousands of years as a main armour type. It was most used armour for the Romans for example (despite what movies might make you to believe), and they won practically everyone. If arrows would penetrate mail (with padding underneath, which is an important part of the armour) with such ease, people wouldn't have used mail for so long period of time. They would have quickly noticed it's flaws and replaced it with something better. But this is not the case. Mail is a good protection against arrows, but these modern replica armours are far from the quality of the original pieces. The mail shirt used in this video looks pretty decent from afar, but I doubt it would be wholly accurate replication. Why? Because a full shirt of mail armour would cost between 10 and 20 thousand dollars to make today. I know only one authority on the subject, who could replicate the mail armour in it's most historically accurate way: Erik D. Schmid. All the numerous tests of arrows versus mail found on Youtube are worthless, since they use butted mail, which the guys have made themselves (I have made it too). Butted mail consists of rings which are just bent closed (the ends of the wire touching each other), but almost any arrow shot from almost any bow shot by almost anyone can penetrate through butted links. The rings just bend open. That's not how mail was historically made. In the real mail the links were riveted shut. There are some riveted mail armours commercially available, but they're mass produced in India with poor quality. The links are too big (easier to penetrate through them), too thin, and too soft (easier to brake them). Mail with a good padding underneath can stop arrows. Perhaps not every single time, but most of the times. That's why it was used. There are stories of crusader knights looking like pincushions after a battle, and still very much alive, thanks to their mail!

All and all, the skills of this man with a bow and arrow are unbelievable! I highly recommend watching this video and every one of his upcoming videos instead of any archery related movies. I wonder if he teaches an archery class, there would be a queue as far as an arrow can fly.